Comments on: Giving feedback: is the "sandwich" valuable, or trite and ineffective? http://www.steverrobbins.com/blog/2008/08/giving-feedback-is-the-sandwich-valuable-or-trite-and-ineffective/ Creating Extraordinary Lives Sun, 05 Feb 2012 15:35:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Anthony http://www.steverrobbins.com/blog/2008/08/giving-feedback-is-the-sandwich-valuable-or-trite-and-ineffective/#comment-2406 Anthony Sat, 04 Apr 2009 21:15:24 +0000 http://blog.steverrobbins.com/getitdoneguy/?p=79#comment-2406 The sandwich appraoch has all of the negative connotations outlined above. If managers can learn to give praise when it's due & show when they are not happy, then this leaves feedback as an opportunity to do things differently. The approach I use is: 1. Ask if they'd like some feedback 2. Tell them what I observed 3. Tell them what impact it had 4. Suggest a different way of doing it 5. Tell them what impact doing it that way mihgt have 6. Tell them what would be avoided by doing it that way 7. Ask for commitment (so, what will you do next time?) All too often manager confuse praise, telling off and feedback IMHO The sandwich appraoch has all of the negative connotations outlined above.

If managers can learn to give praise when it’s due & show when they are not happy, then this leaves feedback as an opportunity to do things differently.

The approach I use is:

1. Ask if they’d like some feedback
2. Tell them what I observed
3. Tell them what impact it had
4. Suggest a different way of doing it
5. Tell them what impact doing it that way mihgt have
6. Tell them what would be avoided by doing it that way
7. Ask for commitment (so, what will you do next time?)

All too often manager confuse praise, telling off and feedback IMHO

]]> By: Nquong http://www.steverrobbins.com/blog/2008/08/giving-feedback-is-the-sandwich-valuable-or-trite-and-ineffective/#comment-2401 Nquong Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:50:22 +0000 http://blog.steverrobbins.com/getitdoneguy/?p=79#comment-2401 I find that anything to predictable feels canned. It lacks that crucial feeling of emotional reality and precise thinking that superior minds have. A brilliant metaphor often works better to turn the tide. Often we're trying to get someone to grasp the essence of a problem, and they're having a hard time sensing that essence. They would like to understand. The central organizing image isn't there. People are secretly asking WHY ? You have to give them the whys, why policy is like this, why the project is structured like that, why one corporation's business model doesn't mesh with our operation, why Bill's e-mail may have sounded angry but shouldn't be taken so seriously. So the manager is like a mapmaker who is explaining a hundred differing and competing maps to different constituencies all day long... I find that anything to predictable feels canned. It lacks that crucial feeling of emotional reality and precise thinking that superior minds have.
A brilliant metaphor often works better to turn the tide. Often we’re trying to get someone to grasp the essence of a problem, and they’re having a hard time sensing that essence. They would like to understand. The central organizing image isn’t there. People are secretly asking WHY ? You have to give them the whys, why policy is like this, why the project is structured like that, why one corporation’s business model doesn’t mesh with our operation, why Bill’s e-mail may have sounded angry but shouldn’t be taken so seriously. So the manager is like a mapmaker who is explaining a hundred differing and competing maps to different constituencies all day long…

]]> By: Carl D http://www.steverrobbins.com/blog/2008/08/giving-feedback-is-the-sandwich-valuable-or-trite-and-ineffective/#comment-2396 Carl D Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:07:27 +0000 http://blog.steverrobbins.com/getitdoneguy/?p=79#comment-2396 The only problem with the sandwich technique is that it's too formulaic. People get used to it, and then adjust accordingly. One of the big principles of reinforcement is to achieve the proper balance of predictability versus randomness. Feedback needs to be timely and appropriate, but not TOO predictable. After all, one of the reasons why humans respond to stimuli is that it's UNusual. If something becomes usual, you stop responding to it - either good or bad. A more general approach, and less formulaic, is to be honest and useful, but sensitive. If that means using a sandwichy technique, great. But overall be honest, useful, and sensitive. The only problem with the sandwich technique is that it’s too formulaic. People get used to it, and then adjust accordingly.

One of the big principles of reinforcement is to achieve the proper balance of predictability versus randomness. Feedback needs to be timely and appropriate, but not TOO predictable. After all, one of the reasons why humans respond to stimuli is that it’s UNusual. If something becomes usual, you stop responding to it – either good or bad.

A more general approach, and less formulaic, is to be honest and useful, but sensitive. If that means using a sandwichy technique, great. But overall be honest, useful, and sensitive.

]]> By: Drake Anubis http://www.steverrobbins.com/blog/2008/08/giving-feedback-is-the-sandwich-valuable-or-trite-and-ineffective/#comment-2391 Drake Anubis Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:04:59 +0000 http://blog.steverrobbins.com/getitdoneguy/?p=79#comment-2391 I highly recommend that you listen to this: http://www.manager-tools.com/2005/07/giving-effective-feedback/ I highly recommend that you listen to this:

http://www.manager-tools.com/2005/07/giving-effective-feedback/

]]> By: James Marwood http://www.steverrobbins.com/blog/2008/08/giving-feedback-is-the-sandwich-valuable-or-trite-and-ineffective/#comment-2386 James Marwood Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:03:49 +0000 http://blog.steverrobbins.com/getitdoneguy/?p=79#comment-2386 I mentioned this on twitter, but in more depth: In a UK call centre operation I worked in this was the most common method of giving feedback. It was trained to managers and advised by HR. The problem was that the formulaic nature of it soon became obvious and it lost it's effectiveness. Receivers would just ignore the positive part of the feedback and wait for the negative. It got so badly thought of that users referred to it as a 'shit sandwich'. I think it can work well, if used sparingly and when the positive part of the feedback is sincere and meaningful. It is not enough to simply try to soften the blow with a meaningless platitude - it has to be valid positive feedback combined with negative. I mentioned this on twitter, but in more depth:

In a UK call centre operation I worked in this was the most common method of giving feedback. It was trained to managers and advised by HR.

The problem was that the formulaic nature of it soon became obvious and it lost it’s effectiveness. Receivers would just ignore the positive part of the feedback and wait for the negative. It got so badly thought of that users referred to it as a ‘shit sandwich’.

I think it can work well, if used sparingly and when the positive part of the feedback is sincere and meaningful. It is not enough to simply try to soften the blow with a meaningless platitude – it has to be valid positive feedback combined with negative.

]]> By: Matt B. http://www.steverrobbins.com/blog/2008/08/giving-feedback-is-the-sandwich-valuable-or-trite-and-ineffective/#comment-2381 Matt B. Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:27:30 +0000 http://blog.steverrobbins.com/getitdoneguy/?p=79#comment-2381 I was taught the sandwich technique early in my career and never felt comfortable with it. I always believed that using this method conditions people very quickly. What's that... a compliment? Oh boy, I better prepare to get smacked in the head... wait for it... wait for it.... smack! A few years ago I discovered Manager Tools (http://manager-tools.com) and quickly adopted their model for giving feedback. Suffice it to say that feedback is merely about encouraging effective behavior - so there should be little difference in offering someone affirming or adjusting feedback. (http://www.manager-tools.com/2005/07/giving-effective-feedback/) In my experience as a manager, not giving feedback is one of the primary reasons manager fail in their job. I have used the M-T feedback model for some time now and have seen incredible results in my organization. I was taught the sandwich technique early in my career and never felt comfortable with it. I always believed that using this method conditions people very quickly.

What’s that… a compliment? Oh boy, I better prepare to get smacked in the head… wait for it… wait for it…. smack!

A few years ago I discovered Manager Tools (http://manager-tools.com) and quickly adopted their model for giving feedback. Suffice it to say that feedback is merely about encouraging effective behavior – so there should be little difference in offering someone affirming or adjusting feedback. (http://www.manager-tools.com/2005/07/giving-effective-feedback/)

In my experience as a manager, not giving feedback is one of the primary reasons manager fail in their job. I have used the M-T feedback model for some time now and have seen incredible results in my organization.

]]> By: Nikki http://www.steverrobbins.com/blog/2008/08/giving-feedback-is-the-sandwich-valuable-or-trite-and-ineffective/#comment-2376 Nikki Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:21:29 +0000 http://blog.steverrobbins.com/getitdoneguy/?p=79#comment-2376 I prefer the sandwich on the receiving end. Hell, I'll even take an open-faced sandwich. Unfortunately, all I ever seem to get at work is criticism on a plate. Leading with criticism, especially if it's not constructive, is not good. Personally, I usually re-use the bread on either side: Hey! This looks great! Just a couple little things: I think the heading would look better flush left, though, and you could tighten up the kerning here. But over all, it looks fabulous! You're doing really great work. I prefer the sandwich on the receiving end. Hell, I’ll even take an open-faced sandwich. Unfortunately, all I ever seem to get at work is criticism on a plate.

Leading with criticism, especially if it’s not constructive, is not good.

Personally, I usually re-use the bread on either side:

Hey! This looks great! Just a couple little things: I think the heading would look better flush left, though, and you could tighten up the kerning here. But over all, it looks fabulous! You’re doing really great work.

]]> By: Laurent Duperval http://www.steverrobbins.com/blog/2008/08/giving-feedback-is-the-sandwich-valuable-or-trite-and-ineffective/#comment-2371 Laurent Duperval Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:37:43 +0000 http://blog.steverrobbins.com/getitdoneguy/?p=79#comment-2371 I think Shelle's point is very valid. When I first read it, it sort of rocked my world since I had been an advocate of the technique. I've gotten in the habit of asking people if they want the negative feedback first or not. Although most of the time, my negative feedback consists of suggestions for improvement. Another approach was advocated by... Ken Blanchard? Is he the one who advocated in "The One Minute Manager" to start with the bad right off the bat and finish with something positive? A kind of open-faced sandwich, if you will. L I think Shelle’s point is very valid. When I first read it, it sort of rocked my world since I had been an advocate of the technique.

I’ve gotten in the habit of asking people if they want the negative feedback first or not. Although most of the time, my negative feedback consists of suggestions for improvement.

Another approach was advocated by… Ken Blanchard? Is he the one who advocated in “The One Minute Manager” to start with the bad right off the bat and finish with something positive? A kind of open-faced sandwich, if you will.

L

]]> By: Pip http://www.steverrobbins.com/blog/2008/08/giving-feedback-is-the-sandwich-valuable-or-trite-and-ineffective/#comment-2366 Pip Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:54:09 +0000 http://blog.steverrobbins.com/getitdoneguy/?p=79#comment-2366 This technique was used successfully in an episode of Family Guy This technique was used successfully in an episode of Family Guy

]]> By: Elise http://www.steverrobbins.com/blog/2008/08/giving-feedback-is-the-sandwich-valuable-or-trite-and-ineffective/#comment-2361 Elise Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:24:49 +0000 http://blog.steverrobbins.com/getitdoneguy/?p=79#comment-2361 Although the Hamburger method is nicely balanced, it is a bit too formulaic. When I am being critiqued, I like it when suggestions are made, and I also like it if the reviewer asks questions to get a feel for why I am doing things the way I am to begin with. Although the Hamburger method is nicely balanced, it is a bit too formulaic. When I am being critiqued, I like it when suggestions are made, and I also like it if the reviewer asks questions to get a feel for why I am doing things the way I am to begin with.

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