Comments on: Unbiased language: what do you think?

By: Paul Clee

Paul Clee — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 20:13:29 +0000

I agree that the best solution is usually to write your way out of the problem. In this case, “When CEOs want to eat lunch, they go to the store.” But the worm is turning, especially in the use of indefinite pronouns like “everone” and “everybody” (as in “Everybody has their own style”).
I’m an ex-English teacher, now writing and doing freelance copyediting and proofreading. You folks might be interested in what one of my most dependable reference books has to say about this: “The tide has now turned, and the newer grammar books recommend usiing the plural pronoun after an indefinite subject….To assuage those who denounce this construction as a new barbarism, DEU [Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage] notes that the use of plural pronouns in reference to indefinite subjects has a four-hundred-year history in English literature and that the pluralizers are in the majority in Merriam-Webster’s files of twentieth-century citations.”

But wait! There’s more. “The Univerrsity of Chicago Press recommends the ‘revival’ of the singular use of ‘they’ and ‘their,’ citing…its venerable use by such writers as Addison, Austen, Chesterfield, Fielding, Ruskin, Scott, and Shakespeare.”
From The Copyeditor’s Handbook, by Amy Einsohn.

So there you have it, but please beware that if you put an “Everyone…their….” in a college paper–especially an English paper–you’re definitely living dangerously.

By: Stever

Stever — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 20:51:52 +0000

No stressful thoughts here. I want to use a mix of ethnicities and genders. Is there something stressful about that?

By: Sarah Thompson

Sarah Thompson — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 20:36:59 +0000

Personally, I’d question the stressful thoughts I see here: I need to use the right pronoun, If I use the wrong pronoun the worst that will happen is…, If I use “he” for CEO or “she” for secretary, this proves gender bias, etc. To paraphrase Bob (above) “Insisting that the language is as the language isn’t, is arguing with reality”, and therefore stressful. When I write, I stick with standard grammar, with occasionally a s/he where it’s non-disruptive, and then stay out of my readers’ businesss.

By: Bob Kerns

Bob Kerns — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 05:34:46 +0000

The whole thing is like pushing a string uphill.

Frankly, I think there are no good solutions, and the problem is simply not worth the pain. When you can avoid it without pain, do so. Otherwise, we should just accept that, at this point in time, the language is, as the language is.

Trying to pretend that the language is, as the language isn’t, should be regarded as intellectual dishonesty. And trying to force-change the language this way, amounts to pushing that string up that linguistic hill. And trying to do so, while demanding consistency, is sheer fantasy.

I don’t mind if the language changes to deemphasize gender, and using it only when it conveys something relevant. But gender in the language is NOT the cause, repeat, NOT the cause of gender inequality in the society. It is not even a symptom.

Nothing useful is being accomplished here.

By: Michael

Michael — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 20:58:32 +0000

Is there an example in English grammar where we have already mastered the use of un-gendered language? I think there is. We say “When a horse wants to eat grass, we take it out to pasture.” So why not say “When a CEO wants to eat lunch, we take it to the store.”?

By: Head

Head — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 15:00:42 +0000

Considering using gender neutral pronouns.

By: Rachel

Rachel — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 02:12:51 +0000

I suggest we ask Grammar Girl. Oh wait – she already did a podcast on this, and stated that there really isn’t a good consensus on this yet. Her suggestion was to rework the sentence to avoid the use of “they” or “he or she”. That’s what I do – I can’t stand using “he or she”, it sounds corny. But the improper grammar of “they” for a gender neutral singular is equally painful to my ears, so I try and rework the sentence to avoid the pronoun altogether (or is it all together? I can never remember!).

By: Lisa

Lisa — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 21:45:50 +0000

I remember this coming up in college. I’m really not sure why alternating is no longer permitted. Rewriting to avoid the use of pronouns as much as possible was also not suggested. Nor was something like ‘one’.
Invented gender neutral pronouns such as ‘spivak,’ ‘sie’, or ‘hir’ do exist. However, most are hard to pronounce and unfamiliar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun

By: Cheryl Smith

Cheryl Smith — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 21:37:48 +0000

The old guidelines are archaic and clunky. I’m not sure what’s wrong with alternately using he/him and she/her throughout papers. But I do agree than using a child/they offends my grammatical senses.

How do you work through this in your own writings?